Summary of 6-10:
It's getting personal. Zophar the Naamathite claims that Job is too proud and defying God by not admitting his sin. He also describes how much more powerful and good God is than man. He insists that if only Job will turn to God, his "life will be brighter than noonday." Job slams back with his best sarcastic statement in the whole book: "Doubtless you are the people and wisdom will die with you." He goes on to say: "Duh! I know all this that you're telling me!" He lists God's powers and goodness and then begs more and more to meet with God and put his case before him. He becomes pessimistic and cynical about God's treatment of men, saying that He "erodes" their hope. Eliphaz then callously describes the fate of the evil man in ever more terrifying terms, implying that it is Job's fate. This is not the kind of thing you want to hear from a "friend" after you've lost your family, wealth, and health.
Questions:
1. Is wisdom simple or complex (11:6)? What makes it simple or complex?
2. Why does Job want so badly to meet with God in person to argue his case in chapter 13?
3. Do 14:18-22 bother you at all? Can you be faithful or a role model, as Job is held up to be, and still think the depressing, hopeless thoughts that he does here?
4. Why is Eliphaz the Temanite convinced that evil men suffer constantly on earth?
5. Are Job's friends motivated by concern for him or love for him in the things they say? If not, what motivates them?
Cool Things:
"True wisdom has two sides." (11:6) Everything takes patience because it takes time to understand.
"Men at ease have contempt for misfortune." (12:5) This is a great challenge to anyone because we all fight for security and wealth in this world and despise those who want to take it from us, or so we think when we see someone in need and feel that urge to give to them. It is especially good for us in America to meditate on what this means as we bask in the highest level of wealth in human history. A good question would be: should we seek not to be at ease or should we simply strive to pierce the illusion of ease?
15:27 describes a fat face and a bulging belly and the fact that even with those things, an evil, rich man will fail. Back then, those were signs of prosperity. Now we honor thin, strong bodies so much because we all have relatively equal access to good nutrition in America (compared to ancient times that is; there is still great disparity), but thinness is a signal of self-control and will power which we idolize.
2 comments:
Real sorry it's taken me this long to get going on this. I know I can't complain about being too busy, because I'm sure you're schedules way worse haha. Alright, hopefully this is how i'm supposed to do it...let me know.
Alright, so now i'll go through the questions. While I was reading I had just a few thoughts and I think I'll get them out there by answering your questions.
1. I believe wisdom is sometimes complex, but most of the time simple. I'm sure thats the easy answer, but sometimes the wisest things I hear or the wisest thoughts I have myself are the simplest things in the world. For example...I had a thought earlier this year that "God is good AND God is life. So, therefore life is good" Thats pretty simple, but when God gave me that thought it really wrecked me a little bit and I feel like it was direct wisdom from God. He also says that He uses the foolish things to shame the "wise"
2.I believe that Job was way ahead of his time when it comes to his confidence in approaching the throne of God. The New Testament says to approach the throne of God boldly. Job wasnt even living under the New Covenant and he knew that as a righteous man that he had the ear of God and that he should have confidence to come before God. I also don't think that this has anything to do with Job not understanding the sovereignty of God or undermining God's authority or holiness. Job makes it pretty clear that he knows taht God is greater than man, but still knows that he can approach his maker even in complaining. We'd do well to learn that God wants us to come to Him in boldness like this...makes for a much more genuine relationship.
3. It doesnt bother me. It shows me that Job is real. If all that stuff happened to Job and he didnt despair I'd question if he had a heart haha. He lost his children, all his possessions, and his health. I think that if he acted fine it would be fake and the last thing we need in the world is more leaders who can't be genuine with their followers. We need leaders of character and integrity who dont try and hide their own mess and struggle and doubts.
4. The evil man suffering thing has always confused me when I read it in Psalms and Job or whereever, because many times it doesnt seem that way. However, I believe being a part from God is the most miserable place to be. So, those who are evil and separated from God find no true joy.
5. I dont think that Jobs friends motives are pure in their advice to him. I do however think that they have probably convinced themselves that they have pure motives. I catch myself doing that sometimes. What I think is going on is that many times the person who is stuck in sin wants to believe that their brother is also sinning. It kinda makes us feel better about what we're struggling with. Also, sometimes we think taht everyone thinks the way that we do...in other words if I would lie in a certain situation or have impure motives in a situation I sometimes automatically assume that another person is doing the same things when in fact they may have very pure motives. I'm not really sure if that made sense haha
So thats what I've got. Hope it's encouraging
So, I'm glad to see that someone other than Joe is writing their comments on the subject. I enjoyed reading your comments and hope to hear more.
I agree that wisdom is complex at points in life but also can be very simple. I find that intangible concepts such as wisdom, peace, love are that way. Complex yet so simple. I think maybe that the reason these concepts are complex is that we, meaning humans, have obscured God perfect meaning for them. We try to put our own spin on being wise that we have lost sight of what it really is. And I like what you said: God is good AND God is life, therefore life is good.
As we all do, when accused of doing something, we immediately try to defend ourselves. Job is extremely confident in his God and his faithfulness to God, but I think that he is just being human. Think about it, three of his friends have just come to him and accused him of doing wrong, would you not try to defend yourself? I say all that but also realize that he is knowledgeable about God and is defending himself righteously.
I think true knowledge or wisdom of any sort is knowing all sides. Gathering an understanding of every aspect you can. So when I see Job being strong that encourages me to be strong. But when I see Job struggle and have depressing thoughts it comforts me that when I have depressing thoughts about work or school it's okay, because God wants us and has built us to have sad moments.
It seems to me that from each of the three friends they think God is punishing those who do evil. God has a place for those who do evil, but I think that here on earth God works through consequences. I murder someone and I go to jail. God did not personally send me to jail, but he has it set up that the government throws me in jail.
I think at first they had some concern for him, due to their respect for him and waiting seven days to speak. But as they begin to discuss things with him, their motives of comfort have turned to all out accusation. I agree that they probably think they are doing the right thing in bringing these thoughts to Job but their motives have gone astray.
You had some very good thoughts on this topic. Thank you for sharing.
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